Talk:Sanaag

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2005[edit]

Mohamed ja,

I greatly believe you are one of those people who are in desperate attempt to efface the name of the owners of this region: Warsangeli. As much as i respect this site for its free publications, I won't suggest it lets the publication of false information on its site. You can google the fact.

This page must be edited to "the regions's main inhabitants are Warsangeli with members of dhulbahante and Isaaq present"

Omar Ali


Dear Wiki,

It is my pleasure to bring into your attention that the Sanaag article has faced several deletion and addition of its content, which prompted your legal action to protect the page from vandalism in order to preserve the credibility and reliability of this great website.

I would very much suggest that you leave it to the original content.

If you go to this site, which cited the original content of Sanaag article under GFDL licensed documentation. Visit the link.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/S/Sa/Sanaag.htm

Besides the region is part of Somalia but there are external forces, namely self-declared de facto states proclaiming this region and using every means to divert the world from facts of these regions' inhabitants.

Sanaagian.

That's a WP clone, those can never be used as references. Do you have a verifiable source you can cite to back up any of your claims? El_C 11:32, 11 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]



Of course, I have a document that purports the official districts of Somalia as of 1990, just after the collapse of Somalia’s government. There are five districts in Sanaag region that the document highlights at the Somali National Peace Conference. As you are aware of, the absence of Somali central government continues up to this date despite the establishment of a new Transitional government. http://www.statoids.com/yso.html . When you visit the above link, it directs you to another link, a report of Somalia’ s National Peace Conference. Scroll down until you see Annex V (Somali regions and Districts) 4. SANAAG (Ceerigabo, Ceelafyeyn, Badhan, Las Qorey, Dhahar) . As you can view them, four of the five districts (major towns) listed in this official documents are territories by Warsangeli clan. Innumerable villages and small towns accompany those districts under their municipal administration.

Moreover, There is no country that recognizes Somal-iland, a self-declared de facto tribal state. Their slick campaign for recognition beguiles unwary persons who are foreign to Somali politics unless you delve into the genuine situation of Somalia. The most recent background note of Somalia by the U.S Department of State states facts about Somali. I hope it sheds more light on your African history knowledge. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2863.htm


Sanaagian

While you guys are arguing that, can we please have a simple factual edit on which state is currently in de facto control of Sanaag and Sool? Is it Puntland or Somaliland? the preceding comment is by 19:39, 27 February 2006 - 213.78.92.253: Please sign your posts!

If no country recognizes Somalia, then why is it that Somaliland's flag is the one flying high in Sanaag? Come on guys! You all know that the Darod came to Sanaag less than 60 years ago because the Isaq married your women. Before that, the Darod were not allowed to even sleep in the city at night! Besides, Shiekh Isaaq is buried in Sanaag, while Darood is buried where???

Walahi, I just went to Erigavo last year and the whole city was either Musa Ismail or Habr Jeclo. In all honesty, I saw only 3 Darod living in the city Walahi! And outside the city in Dallo, I kid you not when I say that only Isaaq are allowed to travel up the mountains. So I know you are busy filling non-Somalis with your lies, but amongst Somalis, we all know that Sanaag is the ancestral land of the Dir (Isaaq, Issa, and Gudabursi).{{subst:Uw-unsigned2|15:10, 26 February 2008|Jeff333}}

Some of your comments seem more about the subject itself rather than the actual improvement of this article (which is the purpose of this talk page). Also, please review Wikipedia's policy concerning verfiability and reliable sources (in particular, citing one's self). Thank you. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I greatly believe you are one of those people who are in desperate attempt to efface the name of the owners of this region: Warsangeli. As much as i respect this site for its free publications, I won't suggest it lets the publication of false information on its site. You can google the fact.

This page must be edited to "the regions's main inhabitants are Warsangeli with members of dhulbahante and Isaaq present" Abdijabaar aar sanaagian Abdijabaar Aar (talk) 19:53, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

External links cleanup[edit]

I have removed the following websites, as they are in the Somali language and not really helpful in the English Wikipedia. I would suggest linking to these from the Somali Wikipedia, of course being mindful of their own policies concerning the inclusiuon of external links. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Picture, links, categories, regions[edit]

I added a picture showing Sanaag in relation to other regions of Somaliland/Somalia. I think the image is helpful even if control of the region is disputed. Could I know the reason it is being removed? Also, links and categories are being removed. What is the reason for this? Finally, what is the reasoning behind the order of the districts? Would alphabetical be inappropriate? Gimmetrow 19:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate Gyrofrog's reversion but the anon's image is OK. Would be nice if it showed Sanaag more clearly, but it's better than a revert war. Gimmetrow 21:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agree re: the reverts, but the replacement map highlights the location of Mogadishu, which isn't particularly relevant to the Sanaag article. As for the other issues, I believe the removal of categories, etc. is unintentional (for what that's worth). I also agree that the districts should be listed alphabetically. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edit war?[edit]

There seems to be an edit war going on regarding this region, especially of unsourced information and wild swings in claims of ethnic division of the region. If it does not calm down, we'll be forced to lock down the page. --Petercorless 11:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Until I can see someone quote a reliable, verifiable source on what % of the region is owned by what particular ethnic group, we will have to say the "eastern part" is Darod and "western part" is Isaaq. There's no clearer distinction to be drawn unless you can make verifiable claims. --Petercorless 11:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am again seeing the disputed "two-thirds"/"one-third" claims without seeing any citation from a credible source. I will not get into an edit war here, but I really want to see better citations made to this article. --Petercorless 12:33, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Eastern and Western used instead of majority/minority. Other district related section was taken out since it will most certainly lead to another episode of edit wars. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by L33ter (talkcontribs) 01:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]
Pardon. I stomped on your edit. I added back in the "eastern" and "western" section but also the Districts of Sanaag. They can be better documented and referenced, but there's no reason to knock them off. --Petercorless 02:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
User:L33ter, why do you consistently remove the information about the 1991 district definitions of Somalia and leave only the present districts of Somaliland? --Petercorless 01:53, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Again I am refering you to the wikipedia page on Somali Districts. If you care to check the map on top of the page, try to locate the Sanaag region in the North Central part of the country and you will discover there are only three official districts in Sanaag; Erigavo (capital), El Afweyn and Badhan. I have given you a link to that page before so please stop vandlising the page. --XCalibre 15:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Here are the links: Somalia Districts page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Districts_of_Somalia .You can also check the map of Somali speaking lands,which by the way is viewable from this very article were discussing here about Sanaag. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Somali_land_2007_01_12.png --XCalibre 15:37, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. And you have my apologies. However, I wonder why the citation of the 5 districts by other sources? Were there 5 districts in 1991 or prior? --Petercorless 18:50, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No need for apologies Petercorless, its all good =). To answer your question I dont know TBH, those districts might have been announced by one of the small time governments (e.g. Ali Mahdi, AbdiQasim...etc) but I've always known Sanaag to have had the three districts listed above. --XCalibre 20:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Alright. I have found citation of sources where the region was originally considered five districts. Let's not continue this edit war unless you can find firm counter-citations that prove this former division false. --Petercorless 19:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(Unindent) The difference between the present three-district division of Sanaag as per Somaliland, and the former 5-district division of Sanaag (as per former and present transitional government of Somalia) has been made, cited, and noted. I would appreciate it if you did not consistently wipe out that section of the article without counter-citations or discussion. While your reservations have been noted, we have already taken to clearly distinguish the points you have asked to be taken into account. There is no reason to eliminate the content, thank you. --Petercorless 18:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Map[edit]

I'm not sure that Image:Sanaag.png is a better choice for this article, particularly if we're trying to highlight its location within Somalia. I think Image:Somalia regions map Sanaag.svg is much more straightforward. But if we must use Image:Sanaag.png (and I really can't see why, since it really seems intended for another purpose) can someone at least highlight Sanaag on the map? Thanx, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:53, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mrf. I'd agree. It's a muddier image. --Petercorless 18:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I did actually try and highlight the Sanaag region in that particular map but it seems a bit scabby and not straightforward. I chose Sanaag.png because it gave more detail as to the main districts of the region and what not, however I agree with you guys it wasnt the right choice after all. I'll put Image:Somalia regions map Sanaag.svg back because even if I highlight the map more it just has too much detail to it. --XCalibre 20:15, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

THE PROBLEM SOOL,SANAAG&BUHOODLE AND THIS MAP[edit]

this map must be basis the somali clan families map because that part of somalia unlike other parts of somalia every one must be carefull that is reason of the confilict and this intersection lines must be cover all harti area in sool,sanaag and cayn using tha map of somali clan families :

there are area excepted in this map the lines extended in the conflict area between puntland and somaliland {ceerigaabo(arigavo) district}Include :masagan,ceelaqoday,madare,ardaa,dhaxamo,biyoguduud,jiidali,fiqi fuleye,awrboogays,dhaabeeda,ceelqoxle ,xingalool,damalaxagare,yube,carmale,bir xamar,dabablehe look map of ceerigaabo:

  • [fallingrain] that mean that area is inhabitants by isaq clan or belong them but that is not true it is big mistake to refer area for one clan to other clan.reason of conflict is distribute of the tribes if you look map of somali clan families you see:

the puntland need to make darod state look map of puntland: [puntlandgovt ] include all area inhabitants by harti clan,

where somaliland need to make isaaq nation in the boundaries of the new republic are the same as those of "British Somaliland [somalilandgov] that is impossible because who inhabit the regions of Sool, Sanaag and Cayn (approximating over 40 percent of the geographical area of the so-called Somaliland), as members of major Somali clans.

the problem is the people of Sool and Sanaag, as members of major Somali clans, have recognized borders. It is a well defined border, with longitude and latitude; it is borders well recognized by Her Majesty, the British Kingdom; it is a border that recognizes where the Isaq sub-clans reside and where the Harti sub-clans are too. I'm telling the owner of this map don't disturb those borders and the peace. --Sanaaglander 14:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Somalia Districts[edit]

I'M surpring who said: there are only three official districts in Sanaag; and also those districts have been announced by one of the small time governments (e.g. Ali Mahdi, AbdiQasim...etc) where is the true is sanaag is five districts since 1982 who need information about provinces of somalia and their districts and how they changed over years he must look all of these official website before for every thing else

Yes, there are issues of the historical districts and the present districts. The issue seems to be that there used to be five districts before Somaliland pulled away, and now there are three districts (since 1991). This has gone back-and-forth as a form of edit war. I believe it might be best to simply quote both situations (the pre-1991 boundaries of five districts and the modern 3-district division). However, there is an editor who has continually removed mention of the five districts. --Petercorless 19:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

other issue[edit]

this map in using this website is not correct because was divided the privince tree district ceerigaabo,laasqoray,ceelafweyn and made most of badhan district part of ceerigaabo and also part of dhahar district. this map was made by Somali joint needs assessment(JNA) just to soft them their work but is not political map.you can see that if you see their website:

--Sanaaglander 15:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The links you made above do not work. Care to point to a valid source? --Petercorless 18:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Districts of Sanaag.[edit]

Why are you continuously altering the page for Sanaag and removing the list of districts and towns? I have trimmed the list to just the district names and the predominant clans of the districts, but I am unsure why you keep deleting the content. --Petercorless 10:33, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Its you who needs to answer why you continuosly keep putting unrefrenced material on the Sanaag page? Im all for that list given you provide an official source to your estimates. --XCalibre 21:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Read over the current version. Is that better? --Petercorless 23:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have kept your edits of the three main districts of Sanaag. Im refering you to the map of all districts of the former Somalia here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Districts_of_Somalia

You will notice Sanaag has only three districts.

Edited as well was the list of the most important towns which seemed like a list of all sizable villiges whome many were of no importance. I have kept however the three most important towns for both the Isaaq and the Darod. --XCalibre 10:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain in your edit summary why you are removing content from Sanaag; otherwise it will look like vandalism. -SpuriousQ (talk) 10:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that though presently there are but 3 districts in Sanaag in the past, it had been described as having 5 districts. --Petercorless 19:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly! The fact on the ground is that Sanaag has only three districts at the moment. You can put all other information you have in another heading, something like History of districts or something. --XCalibre 21:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It belongs under that category. Do not delete information simply because you personally object to its citation. Why are you consistently deleting it anyway? We already have noted the difference between the Somalia and Somaliland interpretations and the contention over the region. Your edits are not helping illuminate the topic for readers. --Petercorless 23:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Am I missing something here? You have agreed that the region today is devided into three districts and three districts only, yet you still in denial of the fact that your edits to the article go against the realities on the ground. I have refered you time and time again to my sources along with maps clarifying what I say. I really do not understand nor see where you're coming from but, I assure you, your illogical editing to that article wont go unchallenged. --XCalibre 11:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agreed the district is divided into three districts, and you will note that the division of the province thusly has been attributed to the Somaliland government. Then it was further cited how the region used to be divided into five districts as per the Siad Barre government, and how these boundaries were still referred to in the 2000 reconciliation conference and the present TFG government. We have made clear how there is a territorial dispute over Sanaag for this reason. I cited the references. How is that illogical? --Petercorless 18:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The region today is devided into three districts, we both agree on that. Why then do you keep coming back with the five districts talk? I agree, at some point the two villages of Dhahar and Las Qorey were named districts in Sanaag and that was in the period between 1982 and 1991, nine years in total. Which was all due to frictions between the majority of whats now Somaliland and the Siyad Barre Government. It was a period and now its over, thats history. Now I dont have any objections in adding that part as a wee historical note, because its good to learn about the past and it gives a more realistic look to the situation in Sanaag. But, and I stress on this, the region in all its modern history had only three districts apart from the nine year period leading to the fall off Barre regime. Do you understand my objections now? I'm also objecting to you putting almost every village in Sanaag in the list of most important towns. You'll need to either change the heading to A List of All Towns and Villages in Sanaag or cut it down to the most important ones only. --XCalibre 19:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed: we need not list all the towns of the region to list the districts. You may note in the edit history I was the one that eventually trimmed those out. The main issue was that you snipped out more than just the list of towns. The article now lists only the districts of Sanaag, referencing both the Somaliland view, and to how these districts are still defined by the governments who also assert sovereignty over Sanaag: Puntland and the Transitional Federal Government of Somalia. While I understand this may be a very sensitive personal issue for you, I hope you understand that I am not partisan, but encyclopediac in mentioning these other claims to the territory, hence listing the historical precedence upon which territorial distinctions and boundaries stem. If you have suggestions to the alteration of the language, please make your suggestions known. I have been reasonable to accomodate your views, but we should not excise important information for this major and on-going issue. --Petercorless 21:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are never reasonable particularly on the issues of the three districts. I have refered you time and time again to the map of Somalia Somalia districts.png in which if you look at the region of Sanaag you will clearly see it is indeed devided into three districts. Mind you, this is a map of Somalia and not Somaliland with every single region and every single district in Somalia. It was not made by the Govt. of Somaliland nor it does in any way affiliates with it. And while I agree that for a period of nine years (1982-1991) the region indeed had five districts, I find your ignorance of all the period before (1960-1982) and after (1991-present) very strange TBH. Im in no way against you putting information about that period in there, all Im against is you creating an area of confusion for the readers by claiming its only Somaliland thats deviding the region to three districts. You can add, as I have stated several times, the history of the region and nature of its structure and districts in the past but that must be undera new sub-heading of some sort, History of Sanaag perhaps?

You seem to have some personal agenda behind your reluntless efforts, I admire your consistencey but please, stop the vandlising. I've been meaning to ask you something, btw, how is www.banaadir.com a reliable source for Wikipedia?

I said it before and I repeat it again, uninformed, confusing enteries will not go unchallenged. --XCalibre 22:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. I have done more research, and found that in fact I was wrong. So wrong that I missed a major document of the Somaliland government which shows the region divided into no less than ten (10) districts. I have cited both the district divisions, as well as a document which shows that the "D" class districts were not counted in the 2005 elections, at which 6 districts were used for determining parliamentary seats for Sanaag in the Somaliland parliament. All of this calls to question the actual source of the "three district" division. While I definitely have seen maps (such as those provided by FSAU) showing the three district divisions, what I am having a hard time finding is the historical time when this division came into effect, and while government actually made such division. So, having done more resarch, I welcome you to cite the source of the three district division. I have already cited sources for the pre-1991 division, and for the 2002 Somaliland division. I know, I have seen the three district division. That is not in contention. All I am asking is for proof of when it was adopted first, and by which authority. --Petercorless 10:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, I will restore the cited information which shows the older boundaries in pre-1991 Somalia, as well as cite the districts as claimed by Somaliland. --Petercorless 11:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The region of Sanag has 5 districts. They all exist, according the federal government of Somalia. The UN and other organisations using the three districts does not mean only three exist, because the UN does not create the administrative units of Somalia. in fact different UN agencies use 3, 4 or 5 districts for the region. Sharm1 (talk) 11:35, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please go back and read the same source you cited 10 minutes before you made the post above: (in Erigavo District [1]) "There are three districts: Ceel Afweyn in the west, Ceerigaabo in the centre and Laasqooray in the east.", its on the exact same page you have quoted (p.72) [2]. --Kzl55 (talk) 12:23, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Towns[edit]

The article currently reads, "The most important towns in the region are Ceerigaabo, Badhan, Laasqoray, Dhahar, Ceel Afweyn, Buraan, Hadaaftimo, Mindigale, Xingalool, Yubbe, Ceelbuh, Damala Xagare, Maydh, Elaayo and Gar Adag." Are there any towns in the region that are not important? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Could you stop editing Sanaag- 85% of the residents are Warsangeli. This province belongs to Maakhir and the Maakhir initiative, Maakhir State is based in Badhan. Their are no entities other than Warsangeli governance in Sanaag.

Why is someone always adding Sool? This is not Sool and their is no Government in Sanaag called Sool nor are the people from Sool.

And to the liar who claims Erigavo, Jibril Siciid land belongs to Jibril Siciid. And stop lying this is not Somaliland and not Dir. Waaqoyi is where your from.

James Dahl and associates, STOP VANDELISING SANAAG PAGE. I am from Sanaag and I am the MAJORITY. Read the god damn towns listed and districts. WIKIPEDIA STOP THE VANDELIZERS FROM DESTROYING FACTS WITH THEIR FALLACIOUS TALES.


Sanaag- Maakhir- Warsangeli heartland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.190.97 (talk) 02:43, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please review WP:SELFCITING regarding personal knowledge. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics[edit]

stop changing the artical in the way you do its vandilsim and every somali konws the the majorty are issaq in sanaag and your so calledclan are minorty i tought that pages mast say the nearest to turth and stop using my refernces . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.58.47.102 (talk) 15:02, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please review Wikipedia:Verifiability. You've changed the text to say "…with the Warsangali subdivision of the Harti Darod especially well-represented" but you did not cite a source for your edit (instead you changed an existing sentence that already cited its source). Furthermore, the britannica.com source does not support your edit: it doesn't even mention Sanaag, Isaaq, nor Warsangali, so I am not sure why it was added at all. As for "every Somali knows," please see WP:EXPERTISE. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

demography[edit]

which needed more information about who lives in the region and the way the region is divided to and some information about the people and which clans live in Sanaaq. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohikan allebbey (talkcontribs) 03:10, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

improved the Districts of Sanaag.[edit]

and the dispute is writen twice in the article which is in no need after there is a hole section on the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omar kader (talkcontribs) 14:12, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Part Control[edit]

Regarding control of the northern Sanaag region of Somalia, it states in the article that it is controlled by Somaliland even though this factually wrong. There are many areas in Sanaag that are not part of Somaliland's control for example the eastern side of Sanaag. Areas of Sanaag were there are Warsangeli inhabitants are controlled by Warsangelis themselves with the help of Puntland administration.

Evidence of this is in the new university that is under construction called Maakhir University. Maakhir University, through its representative to Kuwait, Faisal Hawar, the Puntland government signed an agreement in Dubai with a Kuwaiti company for the development of facilities at Maakhir University. The deal was valued at $10 million USD and it was signed off by the Puntland administration[3]. This is direct evidence that Puntland controls areas of eastern Sanaag since they have made a deal to build what will be one of the largest universities of Eastern Sanaag. Badhan is seen to be controlled by Puntland evidence [[4]] , and as recently as March 16, 2017 Ministry of youth and sports authorities of Puntland Government are opening up a celebration ceremony to the youth of Badhan Sanaag following the end of their course [5].

More evidence of Somaliland's lack of control in whole of Sanaag is in the new road project that is currently under construction that will connect Ceel-Dahir a region of Badhan all the way to Erigavo. Again this project is exclusively financed through the Puntland administration. [[6]]. This begs the question if Somaliland really does control Sanaag how will a road be allowed to be built that did not require Somaliland's approval? Think about this logically if USA tommorrow decided to build a new road that will connect Texas to northern Mexico surely this would require Mexico's approval first But this road Puntland will build did not require Somaliland's approval which is clear indication of their lack of control of Sanaag.

If that is not enough there is more a less an agreement of the matter of control in Sanaag in this article [[7]]. As you can see the map clearly shows eastern Sanaag as being highlighted both Orange and Green NOT only Orange, this obviously means Somaliland do not control the entire Sanaag region.

Considering all these facts surely it would be more than appropriate to suggest Somaliland only controls part of Sanaag since this is factually correct. This is why i've added partial control in the article Beany5454 (talk) 17:09, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How many times have you been blocked from this page? How many times have we had the exact same discussion? Your argument boils down to Puntland is in control because of a university building and a road construction?!
This is most certainly another incarnation of Zakariayps's many WP:SOCKs.Kzl55 (talk) 17:40, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand i have never been blocked, Are you making the claim that Sanaag is entirely controlled by Somaliland, surely given the above evidence this is incorrect. As this article shows[[8]] which you have uploaded yourself judging by the 'view history'. It Shows Eastern Sanaag is being highlighted both Orange and Green not only Orange which is clear indication of partial control
As i've explained, the road construction that will connect eastern Sanaag all the way to Erigavo in western Sanaag is being developed signed off by Puntland [[9]]. If Somaliland controls Sanaag, this project would not happen without the approval of Somaliland and there was no approval or comments by Somaliland which again indicateslack of control
And as recently as March 16, 2017 Ministry of youth and sports authorities of Puntland Government are opening up a celebration ceremony to the youth of Badhan Sanaag. How are Puntland able to engage in Badhan Sanaag this way if its controlled by a rival administration? only explanation is that it is not[10].
Not even Somaliland government themselves claims they control the entire Sanaag which surely merits the use of Partial Control wouldn't you agree Beany5454 (talk) 18:02, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"I don't understand i have never been blocked"
You have been blocked at least 7 times that I am aware of. You are the most disruptive of all editors in this section. We've had this same discussion multiple times in the last couple of months. You will not be allowed to continue to game the system with your many sleeper accounts and socks. Kzl55 (talk) 18:06, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Again i think you have me confused for another user,I have never had a discussion with you before. Can you review the actual arguments that i am making. Beany5454 (talk) 18:08, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Are you trying to say this is your first and only membership? And you have not edited in this section before, under a now blocked membership? Kzl55 (talk) 18:13, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, why wouldn't it be, you definitely have me confused for some one else , i've seen the use of Somaliland control of Sanaag and i have recently responded based on evidence i've gathered to suggest Somaliland doesn't control the whole of Sanaag. Beany5454 (talk) 18:20, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2017[edit]

Change part of Somalia to Puntland as the Warsangeli clan show no allegiance to Somaliland Monaabdildn (talk) 23:04, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SparklingPessimist Scream at me! 23:21, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sanaag districts[edit]

The region of Sanaag had five districts prior to the collapse of the Somali central government in 1991. Therefore, all five districts should be listed in the section. I have provided numerous sources which confirm that indeed five districts did exist, you can find those sources here.[1][2][3]

It has been explained that the UN recognises only three districts, however, this is not true as you can see from the following documents the both UNDP and OCHA recognise four districts for the region.[4][5]

Finally the User:Kzl55 has reverted my edit, although it was sourced in accordance with wikipedia guidelines. So, is it ok to arbitrary remove/revert sourced edits because you do not agree?

Please refer to the source you have cited yourself [11] yesterday clearly showing on page 5 (map adopted from UNOCHA) with the same 3 districts as listed in the article. Most other sources, cite the same 3 districts. --Kzl55 (talk) 00:50, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Gwillim Law, "Districts of Somalia " Archived May 8, 2016, at the Wayback Machine, Statoids, December 31, 1990
  2. ^ "Dhahar District Conflict and Security Assessment Report 2016" (PDF). OCVP.Org. OCVP. Retrieved 15 November 2017.
  3. ^ Refugees, United Nations High Commissioner for. "Refworld | Report on the Fact-finding Mission to Somalia and Kenya (27 October - 7 November 1997)". Refworld. Retrieved 2017-05-20.
  4. ^ "Sanaag - Situation Analysis 2012" (PDF). Reliefweb. OCHA. Retrieved 15 November 2017.
  5. ^ "Regions, districts, and their populations: Somalia 2005 (draft)" (PDF). UNDP. Retrieved 21 September 2013.

Sanaag Region is in NORTH EAST OF SOMALIA 🇸🇴[edit]

SANAAG Region is in NORTH EAST OF SOMALIA 🇸🇴 Mohamed.ahmed100 (talk) 18:27, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

SANAAG IS INDEED SOMALIA 🇸🇴 THERE IS NO SO CALLED SOMALI LAND SOMALIA 🇸🇴 IS ONE COUNTRY Mohamed.ahmed100 (talk) 18:49, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 February 2018[edit]

Sanaag Region is in NORTH EAST OF SOMALIA 🇸🇴 Mohamed.ahmed100 (talk) 18:39, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sanaag (Somali: Sanaag, Arabic: سناج‎ ) is an administrative region (gobol) in northeastern Somalila.[1] Sanaag has a long coastline facing the Gulf of Aden to the north, and is bordered by the Somali regions of Woqooyi Galbeed, Togdheer, Sool and Bari. Its capital city is Erigavo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohamed.ahmed100 (talkcontribs) 18:41, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:44, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 February 2018[edit]

Sanaag (Somali: Sanaag, Arabic: سناج‎ ) is an administrative region (gobol) in northeastern Somalila.[1] Sanaag has a long coastline facing the Gulf of Aden to the north, and is bordered by the Somali regions of Woqooyi Galbeed, Togdheer, Sool and Bari. Its capital city is Erigavo. Mohamed.ahmed100 (talk) 18:44, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:45, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 January 2019[edit]

2601:442:C280:349E:8106:2476:482E:8A87 (talk) 09:48, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please correct the information Sanaag is not Somaliland and please I am a Warsangeli and we do have history do not write lies with all respect please remove the restriction on the page so we can add the history of warsangeli you are somaliland so please I request remove the restriction you dont want some one to do the same thing to you

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:09, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 May 2019[edit]

I request a change of the country that sanaag belongs to 91.73.43.148 (talk) 16:38, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 May 2019[edit]

Sanaag is part of somalia 5.31.190.59 (talk) 16:43, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Done The lead of this article has favored "Somaliland" for a while, but it is not recognized as an independent country. I have changed "Somaliland" to "Somalia" wherever an internationally recognized country is expected in the text and the infobox. The "Territorial dispute" section covers the Somalia/Somaliland/Puntland dispute reasonably well. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:11, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 December 2020[edit]

Sanaag is part of Somaliland. It is misleading for it to be under Somalia in this article as it denies the reality that Somalia has no control of the land and it is also not neutral. I propose that the article be changed as to reflect neighbouring regions like Sahil, Togdheer and Sool. Al-Burcaawi (talk) 23:20, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:41, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 December 2020 (2)[edit]

{{[[Template:Infobox settlement |Infobox settlement ]]}}

Sanaag (Somali: Sanaag, Arabic: سَنَاج ) is an administrative region (gobol) in eastern Somaliland.[1] Sanaag has a long coastline facing the Gulf of Aden to the north, and is bordered by the Sahil to the west, Togdheer to the southwest, Sool to the south and Somalia to the east. Its capital city is Erigavo.

File:Sanaag.png as map Al-Burcaawi (talk) 23:37, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. h 14:16, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Regions of Somalia Archived October 23, 2016, at the Wayback Machine

File:Sanaag.svg Here is the clear map of Sanaag Lakmi00 (talk) 21:50, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

History[edit]

Ruins in Las Khorey

The Sanaag region and Somaliland in general is home to numerous archaeological sites, with rock art, ancient ruins, buildings and cairns found at numerous sites like Gudmo Biyo Cas, Heis, Maydh, Haylan, Qa'ableh, Qombo'ul and El Ayo to name a few.[1] However, many of these old structures have yet to be properly explored, a process which would help shed further light on local history and facilitate their preservation for posterity.[2] Al-Burcaawi (talk) 23:26, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Mire, Sada (2015-04-14). "Mapping the Archaeology of Somaliland: Religion, Art, Script, Time, Urbanism, Trade and Empire". African Archaeological Review. 32 (1): 111–136. doi:10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9. ISSN 0263-0338.
  2. ^ Michael Hodd, East African Handbook, (Trade & Travel Publications: 1994), p.640.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 March 2021[edit]

I want to edit this article becouse there isi some false informations Abdijabaar Aar (talk) 19:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I want to edit this article becouse there isi some false informations Abdijabaar Aar (talk) 19:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Volteer1 (talk) 02:12, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 June 2021[edit]

I wan to make some personal changes to this article because somethings are incorrect thanks Abdiaziz23 (talk) 04:25, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please reply back I want permission to edit this article Abdiaziz23 (talk) 04:26, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you. DanCherek (talk) 04:39, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category talk:Disputed territory between Somaliland and Puntland[edit]

Please see the category talk page for issues relating to conformity in editing articles about the disputed territory between Somaliland and Puntland. Amirah talk 16:22, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2021[edit]

This article is inaccurately stating that Somaliland is a country containing Sanaag when in reality Somaliland is a tribal government entity that falsely claims sovereignty over a western portion of Sanaag. Please correct the article by stating the country as Somalia and and not Somaliland. Sanaag region is being straddled by two tribal actors that falsely claiming national sovereignty, Somaliland and Puntland. Both regions made unjust land grabs over Sanaag and are now vying for contracts with foreign actors over Sanaag's natural resources. Wiilwaal22 (talk) 16:53, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:58, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Already covered[edit]

@Jacob300: I saw your edit. Already covered in main dispute page is insufficient as a reason. . Please give a clearer reason.The Somaliland-Puntland dispute and the Dhulbahante-Somaliland dispute are two different issues, and it is preferable to state both.--Freetrashbox (talk) 20:16, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Freetrashbox:

Thank you for your message. The inclusion of 'Khatumo's claim to Sanaag' adds undue weight to the article as per WP:NPOV. Especially since the Khatumo movement is now dissolved per the main page. The main Somaliland-Puntland dispute is more than sufficient in detailing the situation in Sanaag.

Many thanks Jacob300 (talk) 18:51, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jacob300: Upon closer inspection, I have rewritten this section in its entirety because the source and content do not match.--Freetrashbox (talk) 05:34, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Jacob300: please do not remove cited text. Provided the information is relevant to the article there is no reason why it should be removed, even if even an another article covers the same points. Thanks for clarifying Freetrashbox. Shirshore (talk) 13:53, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Freetrashbox:

I have reverted your edits as this again adds undue weight to the article as per previously detailed.

Many thanks Jacob300 (talk) 14:39, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jacob300: I would like to address the issues in turn. While I disagree with your edit, I would first like to resolve Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SSC Movement related to this edit.--Freetrashbox (talk) 20:29, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

March 2022[edit]

@Jacob300: You have reverted sourced edits without clear explanation like you have done so in the Sool article. Please self revert. Thanks, Shirshore (talk) 14:50, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted your edit to a more neutral wording. I would also like to caution against POV edits and original research in general as your contributions on articles like SSC Movement are very problematic. I will be requesting deletion shortly. --Kzl55 (talk) 15:55, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kzl55: I have cited credible sources which attest the edits. I don’t see that as POV editing.

Also fyi if you see the talk page and edit history of the SSC Movement article. I merely made few edits to correct certain points and added citations, I did not create the article. Nevertheless, the article should stay. There are sufficient citations which confirm the existence of the entity the article is regarding but it should be edited down to remove unsourced assertions. Shirshore (talk) 16:25, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits are clearly undue, both Sool and Sanaag are politically part of Somaliland as seen in the most recent 2021 Somaliland parliamentary election where both regions participated in local and parliamentary races and elected their own representatives in a 1 person 1 vote exercise, see recently published report by a team from University College London funded by UK's Foreign and Commonwealth and Development Office [12], cherry-picking and giving undue weight to text is POV pushing. --Kzl55 (talk) 18:24, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kzl55: It is disappointing you have decided to revert my edits although I have provided credible sources.

Honestly what you set out here just seems like subjective standards. It makes it frustrating to contribute even when edits are done in good faith. Can you explain to me, how is it decided when an source is “cherry-picked”? I don’t understand how you have come to this conclusion regarding my edit. I stress this because there are unlimited reliable sources which confirm that the Sool and Sanaag regions are disputed by Somaliland and Puntland. To support this I have cited 5 different very reliable sources to attest to this but for the standard you want to assert this does not seem sufficient. I do not dispute that many publications such as the one you mention by UCL would attribute the regions to Somaliland but there are also many similar publications which attribute it Puntland. So honesty why should the former be chosen over the later? Would that not amount POV editing? Shirshore (talk) 18:51, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The nature of the dispute is already discussed in the article, giving it undue prominence is against Wikipedia neutrality guidelines. I have cited reliable, recently published sources showcasing participation of people in Sanaag and Sool to the tune of +200,000 voters in elections in Somaliland. How many citizens in these regions participate in Puntland politics? Attempting to repeat the same tired nationalist talking points we've been seeing in this section and edit warring, like you're doing on Sool [13] is what makes editing frustrating. Please cease these disruptive edits. --Kzl55 (talk) 19:24, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In a single google search of 'Somaliland-Puntland dispute' I was able to locate the 16 publications that affirm the disputed reality of Sool and Sanaag.[1]Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page).[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15] These are just the tip of the iceberg AND all are from reliable sources. So in the Wikipedia standard you have identified as "cherry-picking and giving undue weight to text" can you elaborate all these publication amount to that?
@Kzl55: How do you decide when unlimited credible sources confirming the same thing give "undue prominence" and are "against Wikipedia guidelines"? because I do not know honestly. It just seems like a subjective standard that can arbitrarily be applied. In my understanding Wikipedia does not allow editors to determine such things subjectively and only when credible sources are cited can contributions be accepted. This has been the standard I adhered to.
There is no need to strawman, or source spam, the fact that there is a dispute was never questioned, this fact is described in the article and even has its own header. Giving it undue weight is whats problematic about your edits. I've cited above +200,000 residents of Sool and Sanaag actively participating in Somaliland politics, I've asked you to provide the number of residents who participate in Puntland politics, can you give us the number please? --Kzl55 (talk) 20:10, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are being disingenuous as you are subjectively determining what should and should not be included in articles based on POV. Puntland has not held an election by universal suffrage since its creation, Somaliland has not be able to either in parts of Sool, Sanaag and Buuhoodle. This does not mean one claim is more legitimate than the other. Please do not revert my edits. Thanks,
Effective participation of large swaths of citizenship in politics vs on paper claims absolutely make one claim more legitimate than the other. A lot more residents (by orders of magnitude) in those regions participate in politics of Somaliland than Puntland, this is a fact that you are not disputing. This makes giving undue weight to Puntland in this article problematic and against Wikipedia neutrality guidelines. Being evasive is not helpful for this discussion, so for the third time, how many citizens in Sool and Sanaag participate in Puntland politics? --Kzl55 (talk) 20:54, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ "Somaliland-Puntland Rift Ripe for Exploitation?". VOA. Retrieved 2022-03-19.
  2. ^ https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1420&context=law_globalstudies {{citation}}: Missing or empty |title= (help); Text "DISPUTE AND UTI POSSIDETIS" ignored (help)
  3. ^ Mohamed, Hamza. "Puntland election". www.aljazeera.com. Retrieved 2022-03-19.
  4. ^ "Conflict Research Programme The Security Sector Reform Paradox in Somalia" (PDF). {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help); line feed character in |title= at position 28 (help)
  5. ^ "UNPO: Somaliland: Cooperation With Puntland On Security And Border Disputes". unpo.org. Retrieved 2022-03-19.
  6. ^ TesfaNews (2011-02-23). "All-out war Looming between Somaliland and Puntland". TesfaNews. Retrieved 2022-03-19.
  7. ^ "TRANSITION INITIATIVES FOR STABILIZATION DAI Quarterly Report January - March, 2013" (PDF). {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help); line feed character in |title= at position 23 (help)
  8. ^ "UK, US and EU envoys call for withdrawal of forces from disputed areas". GOV.UK. Retrieved 2022-03-19.
  9. ^ ""Hostages to Peace": Threats to Human Rights and Democracy in Somaliland". 2009-07-13. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help)
  10. ^ "Report of the Independent Expert on the situation of human rights in Somalia, Shamsul Bari" (PDF). {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help); line feed character in |title= at position 50 (help)
  11. ^ "Food Security in Complex Emergencies: A Case Study of Sanaag, Somalia" (PDF). {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help); line feed character in |title= at position 38 (help)
  12. ^ "Sool Region: sovereign ambiguity vs a geopolitical system of nation-states?". www.africaresearchinstitute.org. Retrieved 2022-03-19.
  13. ^ Country Reports on Human Rights Practices: Report Submitted to the Committee on Foreign Affairs, U.S. House of Representatives and Committee on Foreign Relations, U.S. Senate by the Department of State in Accordance with Sections 116(d) and 502B(b) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, as Amended. U.S. Government Printing Office. 2010.
  14. ^ Andersen, L.; Møller, B.; Stepputat, F. (2007-08-06). Fragile States and Insecure People?: Violence, Security, and Statehood in the Twenty-First Century. Springer. ISBN 978-0-230-60557-2.
  15. ^ Geldenhuys, D. (2009-04-22). Contested States in World Politics. Springer. ISBN 978-0-230-23418-5.